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The goal of it was to really start a dialogue to kind of create a platform for people to start a conversation that many people are afraid to have out loud especially in the Church. Tony: Is a lot of modern Christian music weak in doctrinal content? So me, Flame, Lecrae, were all raised actually by Cross Movement and they deposited that into us as a core value of sound doctrine. And gospel radio stations are not playing any white music or any other music. It's kind of like we're in the process of starting over.

Tony: Had you read any of Dr Zacharius' books and thought, "This is the man I want" ? But, there are obviously some artists that: that aren't sound theologically and many, of course, who don't know God. So you do kind of get that from some artists or maybe aspiring artists that haven't been discipled. But to me, that is the recipe for death because if genres don't evolve, they die. It's rooted in prejudice, it's rooted in biases, we could call it format, we could name it whatever we want. So, I'm the only artist on NXT Sound but on Mixed Bag we have a couple gospel acts so Mixed Bag will probably be your more traditional label in terms of what artists are on there, some gospel acts, some CCM acts.

He has subsequently made the US Christian charts and Billboard's Hot 200 with all his albums - 'The Whole Truth' (2011), Love Hope War' (2013), 'Heartbeat' (2014) and now 'It's Complicated' (2016). H: Well, originally Ravi Zacharius had just agreed to be a part of the record because I didn't want to do like your typical sound bite samples of preachers or anything like that. The thing that inspired the label was exactly what you're saying.

After three albums with pioneering Cross Movement Records, 2004's 'Moment Of Truth', 2005's 'The Faith' and 2007's 'Open Book', the rapper got his breakthrough hit with 'The Big Picture' in 2009.

Emanuel Lee Lambert Jr is best known to tens of thousands of followers of gospel hip-hop as Da' T. Here are some excerpts of a conversation I had with the Philadelphia-based emcee. I didn't want sound bites on the song "Truth", I wanted it to be organic and I wanted it to feel more like a conversation. This is why our festivals look the way they look; this is why festivals are dying. There's CCM radio, there's quote unquote "Black Gospel" radio.

It's his most recent album, promoted by the highly original means of a social media exchange between the rapper, playing the part of a spiritual searcher seeking answers to hard questions, and the internationally renowned Christian apologist, speaker and author Dr Ravi Zacharius. And I knew that the contents of the record lent itself to somebody as brilliant as Ravi Zacharius. I started a company two years ago that was intended to focus on what I call hybrid artists; not CCM, not gospel, maybe a little bit of everything - eclectic artists. Just kind of looking at how polarized the gospel music industry is. I say, "In Christian music, in gospel music, there is no Top 40." That is one of the biggest challenges.

We've always puzzled the American executives and people who come over here because they take a look at our playlist and what we're doing and they say "Well, how come you've got U2 on your play list? Because there are only Christians and to me if Christians make music, then that's enough.

Tony: Let me float this past you: Cross Rhythms has been going for years. And we don't even like the words "Christian music".

But again by God's grace, I'm completely humbled to say I really kind of hit it off with him and the rest of his team. H.: This is why I say I'm humbled because you know, this is not a thing where I feel like I earned this or this is where I'm supposed to be. Now originally when I first started reading Ravi Zacharius I had no clue what he was talking about. And so, yeah, I marvel at this relationship and how he is able to really contend for the faith together. Especially people that come from a more reformed theological background. And strangely, Christian radio is more divided on racial lines than non-Christian radio, which again is a scandal. There are CCM stations; they don't play the K-Love stations, not just music from African Americans, just different music. When you start something new, you get some bumps and some bruises along the way as you're figuring it out.

So he helped me in exposing people to the content and the heartbeat of this record. I'm supposed to be able to have breakfast with him you know. I'm actually considering on going to his school for a little while too. Iin Christian hip hop, all of us who are doing this now stood on the shoulders of acts like the Cross Movement who were, again, very intentional about being theologically sound in their music. It's not a black and white thing; it's a cultural thing as well. So, last year we ended up starting from scratch, retooling and we divided the company up.

Tony: So how did the tie-up with Dr Zacharius come about? By God's grace, I was able to connect with Dr Zacharius and we sat down for an hour and the conversation we had that day, we had that conversation throughout the entire record. So for me, man, getting his involvement on 'It's Complicated' is a dream come true. There's the Dove Awards which is 99.9% white, and the Stellar Awards which is 100% black.

So that was really just the original goal, just to get him to be a part of the album. This is literally one of those things that God has done exceedingly and abundantly beyond what I ever dreamed of. H.: There have been a number of artists over the last five years that have been extremely intentional about being doctrinally sound in their music. I don't know whether it is the fault of Billboard magazine or the fault of the Church leaders or whatever but we've got 'gospel' meaning black artists and we've got 'CCM' meaning white artists and I've never been able to figure it. So we look at our industry and how polarized it is, and like you say, to me it all starts with radio. H.: Well, the original name of the label was Mixed Bag but it now has a sister company that goes by the name of NXT Sound.

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Obviously, everything comes from a godly perspective, hopefully, and we're seeing things through the lenses of being in Christ but surely we should have a broader sweep than trying to pack John into every song?

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